Template talk:Big Mom Pirates Gallery
Capone Bege is a subordinate He is a subordinate right? The page of Hundred Beast Pirates has separate section for the Subordinates and Allies. 16:10, December 16, 2015 (UTC) Unnamed Subordinates There's been some talk about which unnamed subordinates should be included on this gallery, so I thought it'd be best if we all discuss this. Which of the ones currently on the template or the army seen in latest chapters should be included? Personally I think the current set + the duo that knocked out Luffy would suffice, to avoid overflooding the template with unnamed characters that have no significant roles (for now). 20:49, November 17, 2016 (UTC) None. 20:52, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Actually the current list would be better. Especially the ones that gathered ingredients. Plus the two that beat Luffy. SeaTerror (talk) 21:07, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Well, you said that the Chess Barbarian Army are just a bunch of faceles grunts that are homies. However, in the previous chapter, its been stated that the members of the army are implied to be strong, notorious pirates from Big Mom's crew with high bunties like the Sweet Commanders, so why wouldn't they be considered important? Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 21:22, November 17, 2016 (UTC) If they are imporstant they will be named later on. Don't keep anything for now. 21:35, November 17, 2016 (UTC) "Don't keep anything for now"? I don't understand of what you are trying to say.Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 21:42, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Keep the metal hat guy and the two Not-Operas, everything else can go. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 21:52, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Three-eyed girl should definitely stay as well. She plus ones Kaido mentioned at the very least. The rest I don't care that much about. 21:55, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Okay I'll removed them. Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 22:51, November 17, 2016 (UTC) We don't remove or add anything until the discussion ends. That's the point of having talk pages. SeaTerror (talk) 22:57, November 17, 2016 (UTC) I thought we were done. What else is there? Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 23:05, November 17, 2016 (UTC) Actually we should remove the three eyed girl, because she is obviously Pudding, who is not an actual part of the pirate crew, she's just a part of the family. 10:12, November 18, 2016 (UTC) We don't consider Pudding the three-eyed girl as it's still speculation, so that doesn't flow. This lets us keep the image ready too. 20:45, November 18, 2016 (UTC) Let's just keep the characters who seem like they'll be important. So I agree with Kaido. Oh and Kage's right that the three eyed girl should stay as well. 20:49, November 18, 2016 (UTC) Still adamant that they all should just go for simplicity's sake (a discussion like this will definitely not be the last time, keep that in mind), but eehhhhh whatcha gonna do. 15:31, November 20, 2016 (UTC) I think that the images of random people in the Big Mom Pirates template (the man with the big head, the clown, the lady with the hat, the alligator homie, and the dwarf) have to go. Awaikage Talk said that the reason he wanted to keep them because they have small speaking roles. He leans more towards those characters than the characters I try to contribute from the army. And to honest, I that weak and arbitrary because those people could have been just random citizens of Whole Cake Island for all we know. Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 16:42, November 21, 2016 (UTC) Alright, looks like we'll only keep the minimum of metal hat man, three-eyed girl and the two Opera-lookalikes. 16:58, November 21, 2016 (UTC) For the record, the reason why I learn more to the members of the Big Mom Pirates' army because there was exposition in chapter 845 that implies that while they're not the Three Sweet Commanders, they're still powerful prominent members of the crew. Alpha Omega Plus (talk) 17:14, November 21, 2016 (UTC) Sweet Commanders The bounties for most of the crew are unknown but the threat levels of the Three Sweet Commanders are so the order of introduction is no longer needed.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 19:57, July 21, 2017 (UTC) There's seems to be an issue with the order of the Sweet Commanders on whether it should be by power or appearance. Personally I do not have an opinion on either one, but I do think there should be consistency: *The charlotte Family section is ranked by birth and gender. *The Other Members section puts Streusen first because he joined first. * And the Homies section in without order because: ** Nitro appeared in Chapter 651 along with a shadowed Napoleon, and Noble Croc appeared before King Baum. ** it's definitely not based on name reveal because Zeus, Prometheus, and Napoleon were named much after Nitro and Rabiyan, not to mention QMC was named last. * The subordinates section is order by order of raveal of membership. Just for some compartments, on the Straw Hats Gallery Robin appeared before Chopper but is listed after him, and the Sun Pirates Gallery is ordered by former members last (unlike here Combatants section order). I think we should decide on a Gallery Order guideline, and if this isn't the place for it, it is at least a good place to suggest it before starting a forum. Rhavkin (talk) 15:22, September 25, 2017 (UTC) Rhavkin I started a discussion under Sweet Commanders more than two months on this page about this.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 20:19, September 25, 2017 (UTC) And yet no one comment om it. Next time add a . Either way, I'm talking about more then just the SC so its deserved a separate discussion. Rhavkin (talk) 21:12, September 25, 2017 (UTC) The King Baum issue seems to be fixed. I do not think we should list the Sweet Commanders by threat level, because that doesn't actually exist other than their bounty order Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 22:30, January 18, 2018 (UTC) It is never by threat power. The format is supposed to be by appearance on EVERY template. SeaTerror (talk) 01:33, January 19, 2018 (UTC) We should make by appearance the standard. It is the most consistent info we have. 12:26, March 18, 2018 (UTC) With obvious exceptions for those with different status, I agree. That of course include the Charlotte Family members. Rhavkin (talk) 12:50, March 18, 2018 (UTC) The order, along with the Charlotte Family, would be clear if adding a new reference did not stop at the chapter and episode it comes from but also the page and/or timestamp that makeup the chapter and episode. The CF and BMP are basically one and the same after seeing their part in the story, if we add the characters and story part of volumes to said media pages they give added info the SBS and infoboxes leave out.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 13:21, March 18, 2018 (UTC) "By appearance" doesn't work on every gallery template, such as families where it's by birth order. This template should be mostly by appearance though, apart from different ranks. Maybe we should separate ministers from the other family members so they're not all mixed up. Regarding the homies, Zeus, Prometheus and Napoleon should be first due to their higher status. 16:13, March 18, 2018 (UTC) Rgilbert, you tried to support your notion for "appearances" on numerous discussion, include one specific for that and that idea was reject over and over again. Please except the wiki's vote. Awaikage, if we do not include the CF in the "order by appearance" then there is no point to it at all, they are the majority of the template. Rhavkin (talk) 16:23, March 18, 2018 (UTC) No, I agreed we should order them by appearance here. However, there should probably be two sections, Ministers and Other Family, each ordered by appearances. 16:45, March 18, 2018 (UTC) If they do not differ among themselves in the crew, we shouldn't do it in the template. Rhavkin (talk) 17:03, March 18, 2018 (UTC) Like I said the crew and family are one and the same. I don't know what you mean by appearances but they are different from this discussion.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 17:22, March 18, 2018 (UTC) I'm sorry for presuming that when you mentioned timestamps you were referring to your other discussions. Anyway, we should only go by chapter, because some characters (like Katakuri, Daifuku, and Oven) appeared in the anime before they appearance in the manga. As for multi debuts, of curse pages and panels (from right to left) is the way to go by. Rhavkin (talk) 17:32, March 18, 2018 (UTC) If they don't differ? Minister is a higher rank. We've seen them commanding their own ships/tartes. Same logic as separating Charlottes, Combatants and Other Members in the first place. 17:49, March 18, 2018 (UTC) We've also seen Bavarois command a ship, and he was not introduced as a minister, and we have ministers who were not commanding a ship, and we've seen Mont-d'Or commend all the fleets, including Smoothie's. There is no consensus. Rhavkin (talk) 18:02, March 18, 2018 (UTC) My comment from January still applies. Also they aren't the same. There's no evidence that Tamago or Bobbins are part of the family. Pekoms was never part of the family too. 18:04, March 18, 2018 (UTC) Minister is a higher status regardless. Sweet Commanders are in their own section as well for the same reason, despite belonging to the Charlotte Family. 18:11, March 18, 2018 (UTC) Minister are of a higher status in Totto Land. SC are of a higher status in BMP. No proof that Ministers are of a higher status in BMP. Jinbe said they are strong members, but not of a higher status. Rhavkin (talk) 18:14, March 18, 2018 (UTC) The line between CF, BMP and Totto Land can be blurred but the CF are the core for both groups and sooner or later will either merge or made into a subpage for one of them.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 18:38, March 18, 2018 (UTC) This has gone long enough. The majority agree to list everyone except the CF in order of appearance, with the exceptions of no-names, so why prolong it? Rgilbert27, you need to accept that threat level isn't the order. Can we lift the protection now? Rhavkin (talk) 07:20, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Even if Oda showed K,S and C in that order in a volume character introduction section or SBS you would still disagree.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 10:30, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Correct. Rhavkin (talk) 10:46, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Well Oda knows though proxy of the BMP it should be CK first I mean if we can't settle on the order of the Sweet Commanders how are we going to settle when the order of the Beasts Pirates' Disasters comes up?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 11:11, April 23, 2018 (UTC) They would be organize by order of appearance. Consider it settled. Rhavkin (talk) 11:18, April 23, 2018 (UTC) This is not like the admirals, whose threat level is still debatable, there have been clear references in both CK and BMP on where he stands with the SC not to mention that Luffy does not have to fight the leader in every story just the strongest subordinate, as some would believe the trend, and that is Katakuri. Plus I already got the okay from Yata a month ago.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 11:53, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Your talk with Yata have nothing to do with this discussion other then the title. If you would tell Yata that there was a discussion in which the majority voted for order by appearance he would say that the majority is right. The admirals and Luffy fights also have nothing to do with it, since Luffy also fight several weak subordinates most arcs. Threat level isn't a criteria in any gallery so there is no reason for it to be here. Rhavkin (talk) 12:06, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Order by appearance is not the case for every gallery, you don't see numbers for the Whitebeard and Blackbeard Pirates' divisions/ships not even the Straw Hat Grand Fleet's representatives the order is by the content of the page and the BMP content says otherwise. The Giant Warrior and Impostor Straw Hat Pirates are not order by appearance either but by generation and who they are impersonating. The only gallery by threat level so far is the Worst Generation.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 14:42, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Yes, there are some exceptions to the order of appearance, but that doesn't mean this template should. WP, BP, SHGF, WG, and CF are order by numeric value. ISH is to match the SH. And GWP, like all pirate galleries are "captain first". Any other exception or problems with inconsistency can be discussed in those templates talk pages. Rhavkin (talk) 15:27, April 23, 2018 (UTC) CF aside it just proves that SC should go by content and not appearance.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 15:53, April 23, 2018 (UTC) By "content" you mean threat level, which, again, isn't a criteria. And how exactly does it prove that? Rhavkin (talk) 16:05, April 23, 2018 (UTC) As Rhavkin said, the majority already rejected ordering by threat. Drop it. 16:29, April 23, 2018 (UTC) If not for the content of those pages the order of the galleries would not make sense.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 16:37, April 23, 2018 (UTC) I see no reason to organize the gallery by bounties high-low, otherwise the no bounties/unconfirmed bounties would be hard to deal with. As with Devil Fruit users, all are organized in order of appearance. 23:48, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Thank You Yata, THANK YOU.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 23:53, April 23, 2018 (UTC) Can we pleeeeeeeease change the order now?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 23:14, June 16, 2018 (UTC) There's nothing to change since everyone including Yata disagreed with you. The discussion is closed. 09:41, June 18, 2018 (UTC) Yata did not disagree with me and the discussion is not closed, threat over debut.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 13:23, June 18, 2018 (UTC) He did. Everybody else did too. Even if he agreed with you it wouldn't matter since he would be the only other one. Templates are supposed to be by first appearance in chronological order on every template. SeaTerror (talk) 16:37, June 18, 2018 (UTC) He did not disagree, not every template is in that order. Chapter 879 (p. 11) is proof he is the leading threat with Smoothie being the only Commander undefeated and where on this wikia does it say by first appearance?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 17:17, June 18, 2018 (UTC) Actually he did and if those templates aren't like that then they're wrong. SeaTerror (talk) 18:26, June 18, 2018 (UTC) Okey, enough. #Instead of arguing back and forth about what Yata said, wait for him to respond. #Order by appearance is the general rule, but... #There are some allowed exception like with families galleries (birth order) and pirate crew (captains first and\or ranks and\or divisions order), as well as singular examples (Nico robin appearing before Chopper, and as a whole the SH are joining order) Rgilbert27, you have been out voted. SeaTerror, your attitude does not help explaining why you are right and you antagonize people (for your consideration). Can you stop arguing now? Rhavkin (talk) 18:37, June 18, 2018 (UTC) Your right Rhavkin there are galleries by rank and the crew ranks Katakuri at the top next to Big Mom both in and outside the crew.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 19:19, June 18, 2018 (UTC) Saying he's the strongest doesn't mean he's at a higher rank then the rest of the SC. Rhavkin (talk) 19:21, June 18, 2018 (UTC) But he does get more respect and with it greater loyalty which is why there was such shock at his defeat.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 19:39, June 18, 2018 (UTC) True. Rhavkin (talk) 19:44, June 18, 2018 (UTC) Rgilbert, accept that a decision has been reached and let the matter go. If you keep trying to push your views on this, you're breaking editing conduct and there will be consequences. 13:26, June 19, 2018 (UTC) Not until I see where this rule of debut is.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 15:26, June 19, 2018 (UTC) All of our crew galleries are structured by rank and debut. Not "threat". No matter what the crew thinks of Katakuri, he still has the same rank as Smoothie and Cracker, and debuted later than the two of them. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 15:39, June 19, 2018 (UTC) What templates don't use first appearance order? SeaTerror (talk) 16:13, June 19, 2018 (UTC) The ones I mentioned in my third line in the comment from yesterday for a start. Rhavkin (talk) 16:32, June 19, 2018 (UTC) Even though his bounty is lower than Perospero's Snack was a Sweet Commander whose authority was greater than the 1st son, so while bounties may not be the final factor in what makes up a commander there is pattern from lowest to highest in which there defeated that reflects Katakuri's strength.--Rgilbert27 (talk) 16:53, June 19, 2018 (UTC) Then those templates are wrong except the Straw Hat one. Are there any others? SeaTerror (talk) 01:48, June 20, 2018 (UTC) You can't decide something is "wrong" because you don't agree to it, and I don't think this is the right place to talk about galleries in general and exceptions. Rhavkin (talk) 04:06, June 20, 2018 (UTC) I can since that is how we always have done it. SeaTerror (talk) 20:10, June 20, 2018 (UTC) What "we always have done" is hear everyone's opinion and decide by majority, so any of those templates you think are wrong needs to be discussed separately. Rhavkin (talk) 20:49, June 20, 2018 (UTC) You don't change the rules just because you don't like them. SeaTerror (talk) 23:10, June 21, 2018 (UTC) Who's changing the rules? Rgilbert wanted to know where the debut rule is, not change it; and I'm saying that one person's opinion isn't what determines what is done. Rhavkin (talk) 23:34, June 21, 2018 (UTC) Galleries are also ordered by when people joined the group (if we know it), such as Streusen on here, plus the Straw Hat and Charlotte Family galleries, among others. But that doesn't apply to the Sweet Commanders since we don't know when they were promoted. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 01:48, June 23, 2018 (UTC) So the reason Smoothie is not ahead of Cracker is by birth order and not threat level? Katakuri and, if not also, Snack would still be first and last just why can't Smoothie be ahead of Cracker?--Rgilbert27 (talk) 10:43, January 25, 2019 (UTC) #The entire family is in birth order, why would the commanders won't be? #Out of the many ways to organize a gallery, "threat level" was never, and will never, be an option. Let it go. #The discussion on whether include Snake in that section should be discussed under a different notion if any. Rhavkin (talk) 10:48, January 25, 2019 (UTC) High-Fat Thank you to everyone who got everything updated with Zuccotto and Kanten. I have a question regarding a very large member of the BM Pirates, the one who wears a blue, polka-dotted onsie and sports a brown mustache. I distinctly remember hearing his voice in the latest epsiode, and apparently his name is High-Fat. Why hasn't he been put in yet? (Yeomanaxel (talk) 13:33, June 4, 2018 (UTC)) If people are working on the High-Fat page right now, do they need help? I have the exact time where he grunted, and I know what happens to him throughout the arc. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 13:28, June 5, 2018 (UTC)) I understand that there was uncertainty regarding who High-Fat was, so his portrait was removed. He spoke several lines in the latest episode, and his identify has been confirmed as the large man with the brown mustache. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 15:21, June 17, 2018 (UTC)) Adding a New Section Because chefs are so important in the Big Mom Pirates, I was thinking of adding a new section for Streusen and the WCI 31, who are technically part of the crew as well. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 12:52, June 18, 2018 (UTC)) Also, something else I just thought of. Diesel definitely isn't a family member, and he was sent out on a mission to claim flour for Big Mom, similar to Tamago and Pekoms taking candy from Fishman Island. Perhaps we should move him to the combatant section. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 17:20, June 18, 2018 (UTC)) The WCI 31 hasn't been confirmed to be part of the crew, nor is has it said that Streusen is part of them. The same can be said on your second idea: If a character hasn't been stated to be a combatant, we can't assume it is. Rhavkin (talk) 19:24, June 18, 2018 (UTC) That's fair. I also think we should remove Nitro and Rabiyan and add in the biscuit soldiers for the Homies section. The first two aren't really members of the crew just servents for Pudding, while the latter patrol Totto Land and work with the chess soldiers. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 15:09, June 19, 2018 (UTC)) The Biscuit Soldiers, again, were not confirmed to be part of the crew, while the Chess Soldiers were seen on the Queen Mama Chanter in Chapter 825. Nitro and Rabiyan, if i'm not mistaken, were listed as part of the crew in a volume character page. Rhavkin (talk) 15:48, June 19, 2018 (UTC) I understand what you mean. I guess I just feel that there should be some room for logical deduction. KInd of like how the Other Members section is full of Charlotte Family members because they haven't been 'confirmed.' (Yeomanaxel (talk) 15:57, June 19, 2018 (UTC)) Appearance has been how we always do it. That's the rule. SeaTerror (talk) 18:41, June 22, 2018 (UTC) Constant Picture Replacement I've been meaning to ask this for some time now. While I understand that the portrait guidelines have a clear set of standards for what can and cannot be used, I don't understand why pictures are constantly being swapped out for, in my opinion, inferior or more off-model portraits. For example, Mont-d'Or's pic now has him looking...befuddled? One eye seems to be squinting and his face is completely asymmetrical. Pekom's new picture looks washed out. And Cracker's jaw looks oddly elongated. If the decision regarding these portraits is final, I won't try to fight it, but I would like to know why we can't settle on something. (Yeomanaxel (talk) 12:39, July 3, 2018 (UTC)) Super Powers The appearance of the two no-names in the Charlotte lineup in the new opening should be enough for them to get portraits here, right? -- 00:28, October 8, 2018 (UTC) Order of Charlotte Family members The age of several members of the family is currently unknown. But once the age of all the members is revealed, instead of dividing them into boys and girls as in the family template, it would not be more appropriate to sort them in order by age? Cdavymatias (talk) 14:08, January 2, 2019 (UTC) I think so too. It doesn't make much sense to separate the genders after birth order is revealed.Nightmare Pirates (talk) 08:17, January 3, 2019 (UTC) Templates are sorted by character introduction only. SeaTerror (talk) 19:50, January 3, 2019 (UTC) ST, would you please stop this wrong and misleading notions? Galleries are ordered in a number of ways: crews are by joining order and or rank, powers and abilities are by usage debut, citizens are by locations... Appearances order is just the default. As for this gallery, since we have Dellinger who was a pirate from infancy, and Big Mom herself being a pirate since a young age, we can't know which is a member of the crew including to kids, so can't say when each joined. I still think that as long as we have a sub-header for the Charlotte Family, the galleries should match. We will get the male birth order in the next One Piece Magazine, but not the order as a whole within the family. We didn't really got to female ages in the fourth one, and even if we did, with multiple births, we'll still won't know who was born first. It is better to leave it as is until we have all relevant information, otherwise there is no consistency. Rhavkin (talk) 21:36, January 3, 2019 (UTC) What I said isn't wrong. If people have been doing it otherwise then they have been doing wrong edits without realizing it. SeaTerror (talk) 21:39, January 3, 2019 (UTC) Actually, galleries are first sorted by the order in which people joined the group, and it's only ordered by their debut if we don't know the order that they joined. But anyways, as Rhavkin said, we probably won't get much revealed about overall birth order from the magazine info. If anything is going to change on this template, it would probably be splitting up the Charlotte sons and daughters. Kaido King of the Beasts (talk) 17:38, January 8, 2019 (UTC)